From twibright at hispeed.ch Thu Nov 5 14:42:43 2009 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:42:43 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Rx output question Message-ID: <27677859.1257432164723.JavaMail.root@viefep11.chello.at> Hi, ---- mohamad al-jamal schrieb: > Hi everyone > > it seems to me that the output of the inferno Rx , and the 10M as well , is > DC coupled !! i have looked at the schematics up and down , right and left , Output of the Inferno RX is AC coupled through C177 and C178. Regards, Karel > i have even run a simulation , and OrCAD seems to agree with me , it is DC > coupled !! i have though about it for long , and i figured that if it was to > be AC coupled ; the only way to do it without using a coaxial driver is to > let the output be single ended , therefore the ground plane will be > connected to the twister , in this case it will act as an antenna , and pick > up all kind of noise from all around the world !! am i correct , or have i > missed up !? From alan_moc at hotmail.com Sat Nov 7 21:29:07 2009 From: alan_moc at hotmail.com (Leandro Alan) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:29:07 -0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Project in Provider! Message-ID: Hi! I?m Alan from Brazil. Know Ronja since 2006, but my skills in eletronic is too small. And because this, I try this to do possible my project! Well, I have a ideia to visit Czech Republic and know Karel and Ronja Team and, if is possible, meet with Karel or another entusiast with experience to build Ronja! All of this is to understand and do a Hands on construction! For me the Ronja is the key to social inclusion (digital inclusion) in my provider project. Here in Brazil the 1mbit link (adsl) cost around US$ 80,00. But with my partners (Energy Company provide?s fiber optics link with excelent rebate!) I do instalations in the neighborhood in my city using Ronja as last mille solution! Obviously the time and skill have costs! I am willing to pay with a fair value for those who help! But remember! This is a Social Project (70%) and Business Project (30%) (to sustain the provider structure). Best regards! Alan _________________________________________________________________ Converse e compartilhe fotos ao mesmo tempo. Saiba como no novo Site de Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091107/952967bc/attachment.html From alan_moc at hotmail.com Sun Nov 8 17:16:42 2009 From: alan_moc at hotmail.com (Leandro Alan) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:16:42 -0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ideas Welcome! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After all, I?m totally oppened to discuss ideas to how can I do a Ronja in my country, experiences with low cost internet provider (czfreenet maybe?!?), anyway all experiences is wellcome! PS: I found in Brazil the Farnell Newark. It?s worldwide supplier and because this it?s too important to mantain the same part number of electronic parts list of Ronja. Thanks a lot for all help! Alan _________________________________________________________________ Voc? j? ama o Messenger? Conhe?a ainda mais sobre ele no Novo site de Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091108/dccbfa1b/attachment.html From bio5 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 9 16:33:43 2009 From: bio5 at hotmail.com (A. B.) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:33:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ideas Welcome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Alan, Starting a service provider based on ronja is really a great idea and you really dont need to know much electronics, actually no knowledge is required at all to build it, but for an ISP you should have complete knowledge of the hardware in order to supply good service. I live in Palestine and am currently working on FSO as graduation project inspired by RONJA, tuning and improving RONJA requires extensive knowledge of electronics which you will really need for ISP grade service. What is nice here is that you dont really need to have your partner in Brasil, but he can be any where in the world and just sends you his developed systems. Im currently working on a 100Mbps system design with fewer and simpler components design in mind, I would be glad to help you build such systems Regards, Ahmad Barbar > > After all, I?m totally oppened to discuss ideas to how can I do a Ronja in my country, experiences with low cost internet provider (czfreenet maybe?!?), anyway all experiences is wellcome! > > PS: I found in Brazil the Farnell Newark. It?s worldwide supplier and because this it?s too important to mantain the same part number of electronic parts list of Ronja. > > Thanks a lot for all help! > > Alan > > _________________________________________________________________ > Voc? j? ama o Messenger? Conhe?a ainda mais sobre ele no Novo site de Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091108/dccbfa1b/attachment-0001.html > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, right from Hotmail?. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091109/e792506a/attachment.html From cpuon at fsomexico.com Wed Nov 11 00:56:05 2009 From: cpuon at fsomexico.com (Cecilia Puon) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:56:05 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] 75 impedance Message-ID: <1257900965.15361.33.camel@usuario> Hello, I have read "How does ronja work?" and says that : Collector of the Q103 transistor acts as a current cource working into 75 Ohm resistor. This way output impedance of 75 Ohm is guranteed independently of switching state of the output stage. If you use TP cable to send the signal to the Twister, this induces a mismatch, does not it? Because TP cable has 100 ohms of impedance. Can you tell if I am wrong? or what do you think about that? Thank you for your answer. Cecilia Pu?n. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091110/5c8e3513/attachment.html From alan_moc at hotmail.com Wed Nov 11 02:58:29 2009 From: alan_moc at hotmail.com (Leandro Alan) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:58:29 -0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ideas Welcome! In-Reply-To: <4AF70191.9030709@gmail.com> References:

<4AF70191.9030709@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Russel! I found fasto in google in 2007, I did sent email for price and specifications but I never receive return from Fasto! If is possible, do you answer some questions! a) What do you think about quality of fasto products? b) Your opinion about my ideia of do a trip to Europe (Czech Rep.!?) to meet, watch and learn how can I do a complete Ronja. c) Ronja works?s well in a internet provider? In this case using ronja for backbone link and to final user too. Any information, experiences (good and bad :-)), etc is too important for development of my project! Thanks! Alan > Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:36:17 -0600 > From: russell.valentine at gmail.com > To: alan_moc at hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ideas Welcome! > > Over a year ago I bought some pre-built Ronja electronics from FASTO. > They might still have some left. > > http://www.fasto.cz/fso/ > > Though the electronics side shouldn't be to hard. The hardest part is > getting together the correct parts. Since a pcb board is provided on the > Ronja site, it is just plug in the part and solder it. > > > Russell Valentine > > > Leandro Alan wrote: > > After all, I?m totally oppened to discuss ideas to how can I do a Ronja in my country, experiences with low cost internet provider (czfreenet maybe?!?), anyway all experiences is wellcome! > > > > PS: I found in Brazil the Farnell Newark. It?s worldwide supplier and because this it?s too important to mantain the same part number of electronic parts list of Ronja. > > > > Thanks a lot for all help! > > > > Alan > > > _________________________________________________________________ Voc? j? ama o Messenger? Conhe?a ainda mais sobre ele no Novo site de Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091111/4fe65c11/attachment.html From russ at coldstonelabs.org Wed Nov 11 06:17:33 2009 From: russ at coldstonelabs.org (Russell Valentine) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:17:33 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Ideas Welcome! In-Reply-To: References:

<4AF70191.9030709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFA56FD.4030801@coldstonelabs.org> Alan, a) What I got seemed to work well so far. I was a little concerned that the cable between the twister and TX and RX that was used was unshielded CAT5. I believe this has also previously been discussed on the mailing list. b) Honestly I doubt you will find people willing to accommodate your idea. What is in it for them? But good luck with that. As said on the RONJA website, people have had success building a RONJA without any previous experience. From personal experience, I've found getting the electronic components to be difficult, but I think there are some people on this list who have extras of some of the more critical hard to find parts (Like the LED). If you really go through with your ISP idea, it should be less difficult to acquire them if you get them in bulk. Experience in part purchasing I think would be helpfull. I am a bit more knowledgeable about this than I was previously and might not find it as difficult anymore. c) I think it has been done. I wrote more about my thoughts of the RONJA in a small amateurish paper: http://coldstonelabs.org/files/ronja.pdf You can also see some pictures and video of my optical heads. http://coldstonelabs.org/doku.php?id=ronja Personally I am currently having a optics problems. I thought this part would be easy since I have built a telescope in the past. I might just be spoiled by nice machine precision focusers and parabolic mirrors. I am finding it impossible to focus the TX so it is collimated. I'll slowly keep trying stuff till I get it. Russell Valentine Leandro Alan wrote: > Hi Russel! > > > > I found fasto in google in 2007, I did sent email for price and specifications but I never receive return from Fasto! > > > If is possible, do you answer some questions! > a) What do you think about quality of fasto products? > b) Your opinion about my ideia of do a trip to Europe (Czech Rep.!?) to meet, watch and learn how can I do a complete Ronja. > c) Ronja works?s well in a internet provider? In this case using ronja for backbone link and to final user too. > > > > Any information, experiences (good and bad :-)), etc is too important for development of my project! > > > Thanks! > > > > Alan > >> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:36:17 -0600 >> From: russell.valentine at gmail.com >> To: alan_moc at hotmail.com >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ideas Welcome! >> >> Over a year ago I bought some pre-built Ronja electronics from FASTO. >> They might still have some left. >> >> http://www.fasto.cz/fso/ >> >> Though the electronics side shouldn't be to hard. The hardest part is >> getting together the correct parts. Since a pcb board is provided on the >> Ronja site, it is just plug in the part and solder it. >> >> >> Russell Valentine >> >> >> Leandro Alan wrote: >>> After all, I?m totally oppened to discuss ideas to how can I do a Ronja in my country, experiences with low cost internet provider (czfreenet maybe?!?), anyway all experiences is wellcome! >>> >>> PS: I found in Brazil the Farnell Newark. It?s worldwide supplier and because this it?s too important to mantain the same part number of electronic parts list of Ronja. >>> >>> Thanks a lot for all help! >>> >>> Alan From twibright at hispeed.ch Wed Nov 11 11:00:18 2009 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:00:18 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] 75 impedance Message-ID: <7882217.1257937220263.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Cecilia Puon schrieb: > Hello, I have read "How does ronja work?" and says that : Collector of > the Q103 transistor acts as a current cource working into 75 Ohm > resistor. This way output impedance of 75 Ohm is guranteed independently > of switching state of the output stage. > > If you use TP cable to send the signal to the Twister, this induces a > mismatch, does not it? Because TP cable has 100 ohms of impedance. Coaxial cable is specified for sending signals from RX (where Q103 is) to the Twister. If you use something else then the function is not guaranteed. > > Can you tell if I am wrong? or what do you think about that? I think that TP cables shouldn't be used instead of coaxials because their function is fundamentally different. Karel > > Thank you for your answer. > > Cecilia Pu?n. > > From twibright at hispeed.ch Wed Nov 11 14:28:29 2009 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:28:29 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] BSDified paktloss Message-ID: <5987948.1257949712583.JavaMail.root@viefep16> Hi Bruce, On March 17, 2008 you sent a BSDified pktloss script into the Ronja mailing list. Finally (what a shame! ;-) ) I got to trying your BSDified pktloss script on Linux and unfortunately it doesn't work. It says: netstat: invalid option -- f [...] expr: non-numeric argument 0 Expr error Regards, Karel From twibright at hispeed.ch Wed Nov 11 14:37:21 2009 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:37:21 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] BSDified paktloss Message-ID: <29693135.1257950241676.JavaMail.root@viefep16> Hi Bruce, On March 17, 2008 you sent a BSDified pktloss script into the Ronja mailing list. Finally (what a shame! ;-) ) I got to trying your BSDified pktloss script on Linux and unfortunately it doesn't work. It says: netstat: invalid option -- f [...] expr: non-numeric argument 0 Expr error Regards, Karel From alan_moc at hotmail.com Fri Nov 13 19:21:05 2009 From: alan_moc at hotmail.com (Leandro Alan) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:21:05 -0200 Subject: [Ronja] Good New! Message-ID: Hi Ahmad! I have experience with internet provider (hardware, ups, network etc), but FSO is really new for me! What kind experiences do you have (FSO/Provider)? And tell me more about your 100mbit fso. For me is very good 10mbit. I think the Ronja/10mbit is too stable! But 100mbit is a dream come true! :-) Regards Alan _________________________________________________________________ Novo windowslive.com.br. Descubra como juntar a galera com os produtos Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091113/9698742b/attachment.html From bio5 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 14 22:11:39 2009 From: bio5 at hotmail.com (A. B.) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:11:39 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Alan, FSO got tons of applications where you can gain $$ from I beleive FSO provider is very great and profitable, but its drawback is the poor connectivity in fog which may cause you a headache, so you know your area weather if there is a lot of heavy fog then FSO is not the correct choice and will cause users to abandon you. You have to consider speeds more than 10Mbps since that will be your backbone. Im in the test phase of 10Mbps system which costs nearly 150$ in total. Regarding the 100Mbps system, its still in theory phase, but I hope to have it done by May with GOD's help (my graduation project dead line), but it wont cost much more than the 10M I would give 25% for technical FSO system, 25% for networking and routing, and 50% for marketing and managment for such an ISP to start properly A 10Mbps system can be built starting from 50$ and going up to 1000$ depending on what specifications do you want. flexibility to modefy depending on your needs is very nice. Regarding experience, actually I dont have ISP experience, but i have picked FSO systems as my graduation projects so I know the electronics and design work. Regards > Hi Ahmad! > > > > I have experience with internet provider (hardware, ups, network etc), but FSO is really new for me! > > What kind experiences do you have (FSO/Provider)? > > And tell me more about your 100mbit fso. For me is very good 10mbit. I think the Ronja/10mbit is too stable! But 100mbit is a dream come true! :-) > > > > Regards > > > > Alan > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, right from Hotmail?. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091115/ba0089f1/attachment.html From alan_moc at hotmail.com Mon Nov 16 19:35:16 2009 From: alan_moc at hotmail.com (Leandro Alan) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:35:16 -0200 Subject: [Ronja] Someone already did this? Opinion from Karel is welcome too! Message-ID: Hi everybody! I thought of doing a provider of Internet services using Ronja as last mile solution. I saw in Ronja site the problem with fog! Anyway, I need your opinion about my idea of use Ronja (below a overview project). Backbone: Multiples Ronja doing a backbone link (star or mesh topology). To increase bandwidth I think is possible to add one or more Ronja to the same link. Final User: Single Ronja doing a client link (point-to-point). Questions: 1) What type of "TX Head/RX Head" is better for each application above? (single head for client and dual head for backbone?). 2) And finally: a) All eletronic schematics on the site are updated b) Any component has been discontinued by the manufacturer (You know something?)? Thanks all for your time! Regards Alan _________________________________________________________________ Novo windowslive.com.br. Descubra como juntar a galera com os produtos Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091116/e47f2883/attachment.html From russ at coldstonelabs.org Mon Nov 16 21:05:13 2009 From: russ at coldstonelabs.org (Russell Valentine) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:05:13 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Someone already did this? Opinion from Karel is welcome too! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B01BE89.7040303@coldstonelabs.org> Leandro Alan wrote: > Backbone: > Multiples Ronja doing a backbone link (star or mesh topology). To increase bandwidth I think is possible to add one or more Ronja to the same link. So these spots were you have multiple Ronja to get increase bandwidth, you would have some router to direct data through the two different Ronja? Or just half the users through one, half through the other? Using multiple Ronja along the same line might be hard. If they are pointed at the same direction the TX beam divergence would cause interference with the other one I would think. They would need to be apart (up to around 3 meters if you can achieve 2mrad divergence) or something cleaver needs to be done (polarization filters?). From cpuon at fsomexico.com Thu Nov 19 02:26:57 2009 From: cpuon at fsomexico.com (Cecilia Puon) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:26:57 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams Message-ID: <1258597617.15361.58.camel@usuario> Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal to improve the range. Thank you for your answer. Cecilia Pu?n. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091118/703fa744/attachment.html From workdamyou at yahoo.ca Thu Nov 19 13:21:47 2009 From: workdamyou at yahoo.ca (-MM-) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:21:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ronja] Throughput Message-ID: <869125.27281.qm@web34506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings all, I was wondering if anyone administering a Ronja link could provide some data to the list with regards to 'in the field' throughput.? (Expressed as bits per second or 'x' file size in given amount of time.) Thank-you, ~Mike. -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091119/0fc7d91b/attachment.html From russ at coldstonelabs.org Thu Nov 19 18:05:37 2009 From: russ at coldstonelabs.org (Russell Valentine) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:05:37 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams In-Reply-To: <1258597617.15361.58.camel@usuario> References: <1258597617.15361.58.camel@usuario> Message-ID: <4B0588F1.1070909@coldstonelabs.org> http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/dist.php Get your intensity number from (notice the dual TX table): http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/gains.pdf Then find the range from here: http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/dist.pdf Cecilia Puon wrote: > Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams > which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal > to improve the range. > > Thank you for your answer. > > Cecilia Pu?n. > > From cpuon at fsomexico.com Sat Nov 21 00:53:37 2009 From: cpuon at fsomexico.com (Cecilia Puon) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:53:37 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams In-Reply-To: <4B0588F1.1070909@coldstonelabs.org> References: <1258597617.15361.58.camel@usuario> <4B0588F1.1070909@coldstonelabs.org> Message-ID: <1258764817.15361.98.camel@usuario> I have read this pages and I understand that I win intensity if I use two Transmitters but I do not know which is the maximum distance that I can separate these Tx if I do not want to distorsion the signal. Do I have to direct the two Tx's beams through the same point in the len?Because I dont want to distorsion the signal. Thank you for your help. Cecilia Puon. El jue, 19-11-2009 a las 12:05 -0600, Russell Valentine escribi?: > http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/dist.php > > Get your intensity number from (notice the dual TX table): > http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/gains.pdf > > Then find the range from here: > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/dist.pdf > > > Cecilia Puon wrote: > > Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams > > which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal > > to improve the range. > > > > Thank you for your answer. > > > > Cecilia Pu?n. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091120/1a56105d/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Nov 21 12:09:58 2009 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:09:58 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams Message-ID: <24088703.1258805399840.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Cecilia Puon schrieb: > Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams > which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal > to improve the range. I will assume the TX beams are straight lines. The TX beams have to both go through the receiver. If one doesn't go through the receiver, it doesn't contribute to the received signal and is useless. But if two straight lines go through one point it means they intersect there. And in case of intersecting lines, distance is not defined. Karel > > Thank you for your answer. > > Cecilia Pu?n. From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Nov 21 12:22:26 2009 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:22:26 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams Message-ID: <9378163.1258806146841.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Cecilia Puon schrieb: > I have read this pages and I understand that I win intensity if I use > two Transmitters but I do not know which is the maximum distance that I > can separate these Tx if I do not want to distorsion the signal. > > Do I have to direct the two Tx's beams through the same point in the > len?Because I dont want to distorsion the signal. The longer the link the more you can separate the TX's and still fit into the field of view of the receiver. The photosensitive area extends over the whole diameter of the RX diode in SFH 203, as can be seen by naked eye. Not sure how it is with BPW 43. The RX diode is 5mm in diameter and focal length about 30cm. This gives ratio of 5:300 or 1:60. For every 600 meters of track you can theoretically separate the TX 10 meters. In practice, since the images of the transmitters in the receivers are not points but blotches, the separation should be kept less, I would guess one third of that, i.e. 1 meter every 200 meters. Regards, Karel > > Thank you for your help. > > Cecilia Puon. > > > El jue, 19-11-2009 a las 12:05 -0600, Russell Valentine escribi?: > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/dist.php > > > > Get your intensity number from (notice the dual TX table): > > http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/gains.pdf > > > > Then find the range from here: > > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/dist.pdf > > > > > > Cecilia Puon wrote: > > > Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams > > > which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal > > > to improve the range. > > > > > > Thank you for your answer. > > > > > > Cecilia Pu?n. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From cpuon at fsomexico.com Sat Nov 21 16:02:11 2009 From: cpuon at fsomexico.com (Cecilia Puon) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:02:11 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams In-Reply-To: <9378163.1258806146841.JavaMail.root@viefep16> References: <9378163.1258806146841.JavaMail.root@viefep16> Message-ID: <1258819331.15361.133.camel@usuario> El s?b, 21-11-2009 a las 13:22 +0100, Karel Kulhavy escribi?: > ---- Cecilia Puon schrieb: > > I have read this pages and I understand that I win intensity if I use > > two Transmitters but I do not know which is the maximum distance that I > > can separate these Tx if I do not want to distorsion the signal. > > > > Do I have to direct the two Tx's beams through the same point in the > > len?Because I dont want to distorsion the signal. > > The longer the link the more you can separate the TX's and still fit into the field > of view of the receiver. > > The photosensitive area extends over the whole diameter of the RX diode in SFH 203, as > can be seen by naked eye. Not sure how it is with BPW 43. The RX diode is 5mm in diameter and focal length about 30cm. This gives ratio of 5:300 or 1:60. For every 600 meters of track you can theoretically separate the TX 10 meters I am a little confused, what exactly do you mean with "For every 600 meters of track you can theoretically separate the TX 10 meters". I understand that the distance between Tx and Rx is the link lenght and is equal than the word "Track" for you, am I right? So, how can I have a track(link) of 600m? and also I can separate Tx from Rx 10 meters, I dont understand the point. Thank you, regards. Cecilia Pu?n > In practice, since the images of the transmitters in the receivers are not points but > blotches, the separation should be kept less, I would guess one third of that, i.e. 1 > meter every 200 meters. > > Regards, > > Karel > > > > Thank you for your help. > > > > Cecilia Puon. > > > > > > El jue, 19-11-2009 a las 12:05 -0600, Russell Valentine escribi?: > > > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/dist.php > > > > > > Get your intensity number from (notice the dual TX table): > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/gains.pdf > > > > > > Then find the range from here: > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/dist.pdf > > > > > > > > > Cecilia Puon wrote: > > > > Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams > > > > which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal > > > > to improve the range. > > > > > > > > Thank you for your answer. > > > > > > > > Cecilia Pu?n. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20091121/bb95de12/attachment.html From russ at coldstonelabs.org Sat Nov 21 18:25:57 2009 From: russ at coldstonelabs.org (Russell Valentine) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:25:57 -0600 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams In-Reply-To: <1258819331.15361.133.camel@usuario> References: <9378163.1258806146841.JavaMail.root@viefep16> <1258819331.15361.133.camel@usuario> Message-ID: <4B0830B5.9070703@coldstonelabs.org> Not the TX and RX by 10 meters, the two TX heads, the answer I thought to your original question. Depending how long a link you have the greater the distance the two TX heads in a dual TX setup could be from each other. It is a ratio which he is giving you. Cecilia Puon wrote: > > I am a little confused, what exactly do you mean with "For every 600 > meters of track you can theoretically separate the TX 10 meters". I > understand that the distance between Tx and Rx is the link lenght and is > equal than the word "Track" for you, am I right? So, how can I have a > track(link) of 600m? and also I can separate Tx from Rx 10 meters, I > dont understand the point. > > Thank you, regards. > > Cecilia Pu?n > From gullik.webjorn at corevalue.se Sat Nov 21 18:55:02 2009 From: gullik.webjorn at corevalue.se (Gullik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Webj=F6rn?=) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:55:02 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Distance between multiple Tx beams In-Reply-To: <1258819331.15361.133.camel@usuario> References: <9378163.1258806146841.JavaMail.root@viefep16> <1258819331.15361.133.camel@usuario> Message-ID: <1258829702.19665.19.camel@core-laptop> Hello Cecilia, What this all comes down to is that if you want to use multiple transmitters, you have to make sure that each transmitter hits the receiver photodiode through the receiver lens. Look up the lens equation in a physics book, it will show you the "small image" converted through the lens to the "large image" in the relation to front focal length(FFR) to back focal length(BFR) If you have an object the size of the receiver PIN diode, ( 5 mm) you can figure out a circle far away, which will reach the detector As Karel says, as long as you keep your transmitters within a distance from each other of approximately 1 m / 200 m, both transmitters will hit the photodiode more or less right on. In practice, if you have a distance of, say, 1 km, you cannot place your transmitters more than 5 m apart, because then the projected image might not be entirely on the PIN diode, some part might spill over. >From your question I understand that you want to bridge more than 1.5 km with Ronja. If that is the case, just place the two (or four or...) transmitters less than 5 m apart, and all transmitters will project all their energy on the photo diode. Last, if the light was coherent, i.e. single wavelength, you would have to worry about interference between the different beams, luckily, the LED light is so broadband that these effects will not show with these distances and transmitters. Bottom line: Place your transmitters closer than 1m / 200 m -- 5m / 1 km and you will gain the full 3 dB (x2) of gain for each doubling of the transmitters. Best regards Gullik On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 10:02 -0600, Cecilia Puon wrote: > El s?b, 21-11-2009 a las 13:22 +0100, Karel Kulhavy escribi?: > > ---- Cecilia Puon schrieb: > > > I have read this pages and I understand that I win intensity if I use > > > two Transmitters but I do not know which is the maximum distance that I > > > can separate these Tx if I do not want to distorsion the signal. > > > > > > Do I have to direct the two Tx's beams through the same point in the > > > len?Because I dont want to distorsion the signal. > > > > The longer the link the more you can separate the TX's and still fit into the field > > of view of the receiver. > > > > The photosensitive area extends over the whole diameter of the RX diode in SFH 203, as > > can be seen by naked eye. Not sure how it is with BPW 43. The RX diode is 5mm in diameter and focal length about 30cm. This gives ratio of 5:300 or 1:60. For every 600 meters of track you can theoretically separate the TX 10 meters > > > I am a little confused, what exactly do you mean with "For every 600 > meters of track you can theoretically separate the TX 10 meters". I > understand that the distance between Tx and Rx is the link lenght and > is equal than the word "Track" for you, am I right? So, how can I have > a track(link) of 600m? and also I can separate Tx from Rx 10 meters, I > dont understand the point. > > Thank you, regards. > > Cecilia Pu?n > > > > In practice, since the images of the transmitters in the receivers are not points but > > blotches, the separation should be kept less, I would guess one third of that, i.e. 1 > > meter every 200 meters. > > > > Regards, > > > > Karel > > > > > > Thank you for your help. > > > > > > Cecilia Puon. > > > > > > > > > El jue, 19-11-2009 a las 12:05 -0600, Russell Valentine escribi?: > > > > > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/dist.php > > > > > > > > Get your intensity number from (notice the dual TX table): > > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/gains.pdf > > > > > > > > Then find the range from here: > > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/dist.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > Cecilia Puon wrote: > > > > > Hello, I have a question. What is the distance between two Tx beams > > > > > which are used to transmit the same signal to one Rx?, with the proposal > > > > > to improve the range. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your answer. > > > > > > > > > > Cecilia Pu?n. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ronja mailing list > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jakub.rogus at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 19:45:05 2009 From: jakub.rogus at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Rogu=B6?=) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:45:05 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Experimelntal Ronja Tetrapolis link Message-ID: <3b82d98c0911221145veb649eek2fc4e80f1b8dd934@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I want to get a very short experimental Ronja link (aboute 1m) in one room without lens. Do I need to calculate and add resistor and capacitor in RX like this http://ronja.twibright.com/faq/short.php or not?? Thanks for a help. Regards, Jakub